altfan killswitch #2784
altfan killswitch #2784
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Resources previous pulled PR vs this PR:
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DRracer
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DRracer
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Please address my comments in the code
3d-gussner
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3d-gussner
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Stupid me forgot to submit comments
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How do you enable the experimental menu? where is it located |
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@vertigo235 The experimental menu can be enabled by going into the "HW Setup" menu. While in the menu you have to long-press in order to toggle the Experimental menu visibility. The menu will appear at the end of the Support menu. The visibility and the ALTFAN override are persistent and can only be changed easily via the menu. If you really want to do the changes via gcode, you can use the EEPROM read/write Dcode. |
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I see, yes, that's what I deduced but there is no indication in the hw menu that it was enabled. Tried it a few times and it is there now. Perhaps the longpress should be in the support menu not in the hw menu? |
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or maybe the experimental menu should be part of HW Setup |
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Can we have a self-destruct option in the Experimental menu? |
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Gotta have a 'DO NOT USE' toggle in there for sure. |
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I think that up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right, B, A , Start would have been most appropriate to enable the powerup menu |
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I kid I kid.. but daamn, these would be 5 star easter eggs :) |
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Is the reduction speed activated after we flash the firmware on our current Prusa printers? |
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Yes. You have to manually disable the altfan detection from the menu in order to have it at 100% speed |
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So despite the concerns we have reported and other alternatives we have proposed to you, Prusa has decided to deliberately destroy some hotend fans used by the community. Wonderful... |
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This is outrageous and evil, since you at Prusa are aware of what it will do and still chose this. The message you are sending again and again is extremely hostile towards modifications. |
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Just an idea: What if, when the altfan is detected, a message is shown to the user informing about the speed change and where to navigate to revert the change? Perhaps a choice to directly go to that page? (Sorry, I cannot view the sources so I cannot check if this is even doable with the current implementation.) |
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This has to be a joke, there is no way that you would implement a piece of code that will instantly damage a third party piece of equipment that was installed properly. If indeed that is the way this works you might be exposing yourself to possible consumer law infractions in some places. You HAVE to make sure there is a warning in the LCD for the people that won’t be aware of this upon flashing. |
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I know people will hate me for this, but here my 2ct:
@gregsaun The user has chosen to got OUT OF SPECS with their mod. Prusa added an option, maybe not the best but at least they listened to the community and added it to their "stock" firmware. And why should this change destroy fans?
@ogland What is outrageous or evil about that Prusa adds an option the switch the behavior of an ALTFAN without need to compile you own custom firmware.
Things could be handled differently BUT these kind of comments aren't helping at all. Please make constructive comments and provide ideas like Panayiotis-git did. If you need custom firmware checkout vertigo235/zaribo/my github and other places. |
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I am big fan of Mods BUT these need sometimes custom firmware:
Love this community and it make me really SAD and disappointed when these kind of flares and negative non-constructive messages pop-up. |
I 100% agree with the out of specs, no problem with this. However, there are simple solution to avoid this that took much less time to implement than all those talks have generated... |
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@3d-gussner so for clarification purposes. If I have a MK3S with a Sunon fan and I flash 3.9.1 with the current implementation been cited here, the Sunon will not suffer any damage. It will only spin at 4,000RPM until I enable the AltFan function from the secret menu? |
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@3d-gussner I'll add my (serious) view of this: you don't need to go "out of spec" to run into this issue.
This is IMHO 100% legitimate and done with the best intentions (matching power/cfm requirements). |
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@josefprusa you said outside github: it autodetects is for users who have it installed while updating and you will be able to switch this on/off in the menu. -> Do you mean the that when we flash the firmware it autodetects we are using a Sunon and ask you if you want to disable it? I am sorry but I understand this differently than the answer from @leptun I had here: #2784 (comment). To me this means that current users will have to manual change this setting in a hidden menu otherwise it will BY DEFAULT damage the fan. If you warn the current user and give him the choice to NOT deliberately damage the fan then I don't see the problem. Could we have a precision on how this works then? |
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@gregsaun That's not how it worked when I flashed it, the FW certainly does detect it and changes your fan speed, but there is no warning or notification to the user as far as I could tell. You would have to know to activate the secret menu, and then how, enable to power your machine up again. It's really easy to not know this even if you are an experienced user, I had built the FW at least 3 times and never noticed the slower fan speed until another community member told me about it. |
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@vertigo235 So why @josefprusa is angry at me then? I have to warn my community that they might damaged permanently their fan on the next firmware upgrade. I should have kept this silent and let my customers damage their fan because they didn't see this little hidden menu and the reduction of speed? |
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Easier can be seen differently by people. Prusa has their point to not make this standard 100% fan speed as it fulfilled their specs for the fan of choice at 50%. Also make it non visible to the majority of their users is a good point. Modders would like to have it done differently and everything customizable as possible. So what is the correct way to do this? There is no ONE way to satisfy everyone. Where I am very disappointed in is the reaction of the some people of community ranting about a compromise Prusa tried to fit both needs. Standard user want to use realible hardware and software and not be overwhelmed by the choices they have to make. Modders should be glad that they can deactivate the slow 50% fan to 100% in stock firmware even it is bit tricky to do that. And it has to be done ONCE. I personally was surprised that Prusa considered this option and spent developing time on something that is out of their specs. I live in a country where people first complain and think later. The 3D printing community is better than this. |
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Yes so what is the problem if I inform my community that they MIGHT DAMAGE THE FAN? |
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FWIW I'm OK with the solution, but all the builds that I make will have ALTFAN set to 255 as god intended, so the ALTFAN killswitch will effectively do nothing anyhow. |
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@gregsaun As long as you communicate that they may damage the fan unless they disable the ALTFAN detection, then I can't see how there is any problem with that. The ability to disable the "feature" in the stock FW has been addressed. Thank you Prusa team for listening to the community. |
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@vertigo235 I did obviously provide an explanation on how to activate the hidden menu to not damage the fan. I think it is important to also warn the customers before the firmware is available to be sure everyone gets the info in time. |
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As it is an unreleased feature, things can change based on feedback (as it already has), so we should give the Prusa team time to take take the feedback and perhaps adjust before the final release. To that note, maybe it was premature to sound a general alarm since the feature set is not complete yet for the next release, at least I think? |
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@gregsaun maybe you should advise your users to use the @vertigo235 Bear firmware as it is well maintained and very fast updated. |
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@vertigo235 I agree but we have discuss this since several weeks now, we have a merge here, a confirmation from the developer how it will work and how it will be done in the menu... I think it was the moment to inform my community on how the firmware evolve. I personally know that they don't read release notes so I did prefer to be safer than sorry. |
That was obviously part of my post, explaining the future of the Bear calibration firmware and that we are going to change how things are made. I was waiting on the developer program to make this smoother for the community but this is not available today. |
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@gregsaun Autodetection is what we agreed on with @DRracer who is the FW team leader at the time when we were first planning how to implement it and that is how it is going to be. I am sorry that external devs don’t know everything, next time confront @DRracer. Stop your witch hunt until the beta of the FW is out. |
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@josefprusa then it is on your side Jo, I've asked here before positing to be sure it was the correct behavior. I have just taken the decision to be safer than sorry regarding my customers. |
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I'm a little confused now , does that mean this feature is incomplete? Is it not behaving as intended? |
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@DRracer sorry you are in this position, I really appreciate all your quality work and I am deeply convinced that Prusa is very lucky to have you. |
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If your external developers don't know what is going on then you certainly can't expect the general community to know either. |
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Was it a mistake in assuming this is the proper forum for customers to provide feedback and testing results from merged code in the Prusa FW? If we do this we are accused of being witch hunters? |
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If a customer has a hotend fan running at 5000RPM, will it go down to 2500RPM? |
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If we reset the firmware, in what mode we will be then? |
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Nobody resets their firmware after updating so resetting EEPROM upon upgrading is a poor assumption that your users will do that. Is that part of the recommendation as you update the FW? I could be out of process. |
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I would not think that I would be expected to re calibrate all my sheets etc after updating my FW |
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@vertigo235 no but you might have a customer resetting the firmware after seeing a weird behavior. |
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Related to #2692
PFW-1134