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MSC2918: Refresh tokens #2918
MSC2918: Refresh tokens #2918
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Shouldn't this be if its false? I.e. we include the params when we return a valid access token?
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The spec says:
So that sentence seems correct? If
inhibit_login
istrue
, it will not return the additional fieldsThere was a problem hiding this comment.
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it's not the easiest thing to grok, but @sandhose is right, and @erikjohnston is confused.
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Does the refresh token expire? How does one manually expire it?
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also would be interested to see how this plays with soft logout: if the access token expires, but the refresh token is still live, should the server be using
soft_logout: true
in expiration responses? If so, how should the server clean up the device once the refresh token also expires?There was a problem hiding this comment.
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Refresh token don't expire, but they get invalidated on use.
By the way, the current implementation in Synapse is incompatible with the
session_lifetime
config parameter, which was the one that made access token expire and led to soft logouts.I was not aware of how
soft_logout
works. :)But also clients should now be aware when the token expires, so
soft_logout
on access token expiration should not happen as often, but then I'd clarify thatsoft_logout
also applies when using the/refresh
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This particular piece is a bit concerning, as it means that refresh tokens are hanging around waiting to give access back to the account. On the other hand, this somewhat fixes the scripts usecase as it can then store the refresh token and use that on the next run.
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It still heavily mitigates the impact of token leakage, since they are rotating.
This is what a security best practices for OAuth 2.0 document from the IETF says about refresh tokens:
tl;dr: if there is an attempt to use an old refresh token, there might be a token leak somewhere and the whole session should be invalidated. This could be mentioned in the MSC and/or in the spec, and implemented in Synapse if you thing it makes sense.
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Also clarified about
soft_logout
in the refresh token API in 2c11e6fThere was a problem hiding this comment.
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ah ha, so the server would revoke the access token when a refresh token is used twice?
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It could, although not strictly enforced by this MSC (and the current implementation in Synapse does not do that)
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@turt2live is this clear enough now?
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to expand on this, and the "potential issues" section above, what are the concerns with introducing it as some form of opt-in (or opt-out) mechanism for things like long-lived bots or scripts which do not easily have a refresh opportunity? For example, a nightly batch job to prune rooms/events/etc could use a static access token instead of having to login, do the work, then log out again, which would put the password near the script rather than a single revocable token.
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I think for both use cases (bots and scripts) I'd rather make use of the
org.matrix.login.jwt
login type with some KMS signing it for the initial login and still have the token refresh. Storing long-lived access tokens without proper secret handling is at least as bad as storing the login/pass of the bot IMO, especially if the user has admin access.If we still need some kind of static access token, I'd rather have that in Synapse (in the config or something) than in the spec
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Fair, that sounds reasonable. Just wanted to expand on the potential usecase, but agreed that scripts can find other ways to authenticate (or better yet: be replaced by features within the protocol/homeserver implementation)
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I think an authentication option for scripts needs to be in the spec. I have a lot of scripts that push notifications or upload files from CI jobs for example. Those use access tokens, because CI jobs do sometimes get compromised (happened once because of codecov) and that way the access token can be easily rotated without being a homeserver admin. If the script used username and password instead, an attacker would have been able to get past UIA and change the password and just in general do much more nasty stuff than with an access token. The jobs also can't refresh the access token, since they may be running concurrently and can't change CI variables.
What would be my alternative for that use case, that works independent of the specific homeserver implementation?
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There is an ongoing effort to rework the whole authentication process, with use cases like scripts running in CI in mind. This MSC is also done to prepare clients for the eventual migration to this new authentication stack without having them to logout all their existing sessions.
The login API with non-expiring token will hopefully stay until this new auth stack is ready, so when you would need to migrate you will have a proper alternative.
In the meantime, if you want to still adopt refresh tokens and you are admin of your homeserver, I suggest you look into the
org.matrix.login.jwt
login type in Synapse. Even though it is not standard, it will let you login using a JWT signed by some party.It might still need some changes in Synapse to allow restricting the tokens (like not being able to use them for UIA to avoid letting the account to be nuked), but I prefer to go that route rather than adding this kind of special cases in this MSC if it will be superseded by something else soon-ish.