RFC - A Joomla Admin Menu Manager

[brianteeman]

The Joomla admin menus are one of the few things in Joomla that you cannot truly customise. The location of the menu items is as a result of arbitrary decisions made many years ago.

Why have all the components under one menu?

Wouldn't you like to perhaps separate the utilities from the content creation components.

Why is content a top level menu item?

It is just a component. I am sure the logic was that it was a component that is used so often that it deserves its own place. But what if you don't use com_content and use com_seblod - or you even have a photo gallery as your main content creating component.

Wouldn't it be great if you could build and customise the admin menu however you want? I am sure many people have had this thought as well but have you ever looked at the code that generates the menus in the Joomla admin? If you have then I am pretty sure that you will have run away scared.

All the menu items except for the Components menu are hard coded with lots of if statements to cope with the few places that we have options.

I am proposing that we switch the entire admin menu system to be database driven and customisable via an admin menu component. Thecomponent will allow people to move menu items, create and remove top level menus etc.

Backwards compatibility

By default without any modifications the site should look exactly the same.
The big BC issue to address is where do the menu links for NEW components that a user installs get created. The problem is that the user could have removed the "components" top level menu. I would suggest that just as we have to flag a top level menu item as default homepage in the frontend we would have to flag a top level menu item in the admin as well for the default location that new component menu items are created.

Multilanguage issues

Unlike the frontend I would suggest that the admin menu manager can only manage ONE menu and not one per language. Instead of user created menu titles as in the front end we can continue to use the strings from the language files. This will ensure that a site with multiple admin languages installed will only need to manage one menu and that everything will be in the same place in all languages.

Database issues

Currently the jos_extensions table contains all extensions so we would just need to update that table to contain the id for the menu link

[ot2sen]

It would be a welcomed improvement.

When you remember the old tools from the JXtended Guys, where of one was the AdvancedAdminMenu that Andrew made,it was a joy to select your own administraion menu setup.

Would be great if we could have such kind of feature as you suggest Brian, inside core. Users would welcome it.

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[ot2sen]

Brian,
One thing, that was also a concern in the past, was how would we handle documentation and training with such a liberal and user specific administration menu?

As you are one of the most experienced joomla trainers, how would you approach this side of a change?

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[brianteeman]

That used to be my concern as well - but I am not really worried abthey out
it any more as the exact same argument can be made about admin templates.

Plus I think the reality is that heavy customisation will only be done
either by advanced users OR the type of user who would never read generic
documentation either as they have a customised experience

[jrseliga]

@brianteeman Instead of developing an entirely new component how about leveraging the current menu component? Perhaps it's just my OCD, but having two components that do nearly identical things doesn't seem practical.

New "client_id" column in jos_menu_types

• Flags different menus as front-end (0) or back-end (1)

New "adminmenus" model/view in com_menu

• Only displays administrative menus jos_menu.client_id = 1

Update com_menu "menus" model/view

• Only displays site menus jos_menu.client_id = 0

New components installed

• In same way that Joomla! comes with a default front-end menu created, it will come with a default back-end menu as well (which can't be deleted).
  • All new root menu items for components will be created at the root level of the default back-end menu.
    • Make this configurable in the back-end, where site administrators can choose a specific back-end menu item they want to act as the parent for all new component root menu items.

I'm a proponent of no longer lumping of all newly installed components into a generic "Components" bin, especially as more components get decoupled from core.

Right now the menu would look something like this:

But as components are made stand-alone from core it will approach this:

[brianteeman]

@jrseliga Re New components installed
Isnt that exactly what I said

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[parthlawate]

+1 to this. This will be inline with the current road map where the Joomla core is being slimmed down making Joomla a better platform to build upon and allowing site owners the flexibility to prioritize what they want.

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[natselection]

I think this is a good idea. Most of our clients only want to be able to login and edit text occasionally or add events etc. Most find all of the menu items a bit overwhelming and end up in places they should be and accidentally make changes. Many components install a menu item that has no function or is a set once and don't touch again situation that would be nice to be able to easily hide it. I'd love to be able to customize it to suit individual needs.

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[brianteeman]

Yeah - thats the idea.

Personally I always want to create a Content Menu with content creating
components such as com_content, com_gallery and com_contact and a separate
menu for my utility components such as com_jce, com_admintools, com_backup

On 23 December 2014 at 07:49, Matthew Baylor notifications@github.com
wrote:

I think this is a good idea. Most of our clients only want to be able to
login and edit text occasionally or add events etc. Most find all of the
menu items a bit overwhelming and end up in places they should be and
accidentally make changes. Many components install a menu item that has no
function or is a set once and don't touch again situation that would be
nice to be able to easily hide it. I'd love to be able to customize it to

suit individual needs.

This comment was created with the J!Tracker Application
https://github.com/joomla/jissues at issues.joomla.org/joomla-cms/5492
http://issues.joomla.org/tracker/joomla-cms/5492.

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Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub
#5492 (comment).

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http://brian.teeman.net/

[jrseliga]

@brianteeman for the most part yes, though if you read my comment from the J!Tracker and not directly on GitHub you missed an important edit I made. (Does the J!Tracker ever update comments?)

On that section specifically I restated your remarks as means of prefacing the key idea:
Using the root menu item specifically as the parent for all new components.

You noted a concern that the top level menu item "Components" could have been deleted by the user, leaving no fallback menu item to set as the parent for new components. And offered a suggested idea of flagging a specific item, which I also recycled in my response. I meant for that last part to be a small caveat, as in my suggestion Joomla! defaults to installing a components root item as a child to the absolute root menu item, unless the site administrator specified otherwise.

Since it's impossible to delete the root menu item, aside from direct SQL manipulation, it is no longer a concern.

Though it's not completely unreasonable to completely let the component developers handle it, as is done with front-end menu items (?). From what I've seen some create a completely new menutype and populate that with their items some make no assumptions about how the user wants their menu structure and do nothing in the way of menu items.

In many cases the default behavior for site administrators for the front-end menu items is:
"I just installed a component, have to create a menu item so my visitors can access it"

Honestly I favor the idea of not automatically creating menu items at all. At least not having Joomla! do it. It would ship with all the necessary core back-end menu items, but as far as third party components there's no need. That might seem blasphemous at first but it's at least consistent to front-end administration.

I understand that is not the behavior site administrators are used to currently for backend menu items, but being able to completely customize the backend menus with the same granularity as the front-end is also not something administrators are used to either. This introduces a new use-case, and in those cases it's not unreasonable to require a different path for the user.

Whenever the user wants a new menu item created for the frontend, there is a modal that allows you to pick the type of menu item you want. Same would apply for the back-end.

[brianteeman]

I really really dont like the idea of not having components create menu
link to themselves in the admin. But even if I did like it that's never
going to get through the B/C checks as it would be a massive changeof
behaviour. "I installed com_whatever - where is it?"

PS Github sync edits with the issues tracker on a cron job iirc - so
patience is they key there

On 23 December 2014 at 08:13, Justin Seliga notifications@github.com
wrote:

@brianteeman https://github.com/brianteeman for the most part yes,
though if you read my comment from the J!Tracker and not directly on GitHub
you missed an important edit I made. (Does the J!Tracker ever update
comments?)

On that section specifically I restated your remarks as means of prefacing
the key idea:
Using the root menu item specifically as the parent for all new components.

You noted a concern that the top level menu item "Components" could have
been deleted by the user, leaving no fallback menu item to set as the
parent for new components. And offered a suggested idea of flagging a
specific item, which I also recycled in my response. I meant for that last
part to be a small caveat, as in my suggestion Joomla! defaults to
installing a components root item as a child to the absolute root menu
item, unless the site administrator specified otherwise.

Since it's impossible to delete the root menu item, aside from direct SQL
manipulation, it is no longer a concern.

Though it's not completely unreasonable to completely let the component
developers handle it, as is done with front-end menu items (?). From what
I've seen some create a completely new menutype and populate that with
their items some make no assumptions about how the user wants their menu
structure and do nothing in the way of menu items.

In many cases the default behavior for site administrators for the
front-end menu items is:
"I just installed a component, have to create a menu item so my visitors
can access it"

Honestly I favor the idea of not automatically creating menu items at all.
At least not having Joomla! do it. It would ship with all the necessary
core back-end menu items, but as far as third party components there's no
need. That might seem blasphemous at first but it's at least consistent to
front-end administration.

I understand that is not the behavior site administrators are used to
currently for backend menu items, but being able to completely customize
the backend menus with the same granularity as the front-end is also not
something administrators are used to either. This introduces a new
use-case, and in those cases it's not unreasonable to require a different
path for the user.

Whenever the user wants a new menu item created for the frontend, there is
a modal that allows you to pick the type of menu item you want. Same would
apply for the back-end.

—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub
#5492 (comment).

Brian Teeman
Co-founder Joomla! and OpenSourceMatters Inc.
http://brian.teeman.net/

[jrseliga]

Perhaps the solution could be:

1. Create create a brand new menu for each component, then automatically create/publish a new menu module that points to that menu and assign that module to all of the menu items that were just created.
2. Create one alias item in the default administrator menutype that points to the component's "home" item just created.

[brianteeman]

Sorry - I dont like that idea and I dont see what the problem is you are
solving with that

On 23 December 2014 at 08:48, Justin Seliga notifications@github.com
wrote:

Perhaps the solution could be:

1. Create create a brand new menu for each component, then automatically
   create/publish a new menu module that points to that menu and assign that
   module to all of the menu items that were just created.
2. Create one alias item in the default administrator menutype that points
   to the component's "home" item just created.

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Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub
#5492 (comment).

Brian Teeman
Co-founder Joomla! and OpenSourceMatters Inc.
http://brian.teeman.net/

[josephsimony]

I'm all for consistency as well. For those clients who need a complete customization I'm using one of the myriad components/plugins (for example Admin Menu Manage does the job well). For others I have a hard time to explain even the current menu. If almost every Joomla administration (Template Provider Demo Packages with pre-installed components) would come with different admin menus it would be a nightmare to support users.

Don't get me wrong; It would be great to see in the core but only with a consistent setup and hide it as much as possible with one click revert to the original structure.

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[brianteeman]

One click revert is definitely an option

On 23 December 2014 at 09:45, Joseph Simony notifications@github.com
wrote:

I'm all for consistency as well. For those clients who need a complete
customization I'm using one of the myriad components/plugins (for example Admin
Menu Manage
http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions/extension/administration/admin-navigation/admin-menu-manager
does the job well). For others I have a hard time to explain even the
current menu. If almost every Joomla administration (Template Provider Demo
Packages with pre-installed components) would come with different admin
menus it would be a nightmare to support users.

Don't get me wrong; It would be great to see in the core but only with a
consistent setup and hide it as much as possible with one click revert to

the original structure.

This comment was created with the J!Tracker Application
https://github.com/joomla/jissues at issues.joomla.org/joomla-cms/5492
http://issues.joomla.org/tracker/joomla-cms/5492.

—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub
#5492 (comment).

Brian Teeman
Co-founder Joomla! and OpenSourceMatters Inc.
http://brian.teeman.net/

[brianteeman]

And I don't see why users have to pay for an option to do something that is
useful to everyone

On 23 December 2014 at 09:47, Brian Teeman brian@teeman.net wrote:

One click revert is definitely an option

On 23 December 2014 at 09:45, Joseph Simony notifications@github.com
wrote:

I'm all for consistency as well. For those clients who need a complete
customization I'm using one of the myriad components/plugins (for example Admin
Menu Manage
http://extensions.joomla.org/extensions/extension/administration/admin-navigation/admin-menu-manager
does the job well). For others I have a hard time to explain even the
current menu. If almost every Joomla administration (Template Provider Demo
Packages with pre-installed components) would come with different admin
menus it would be a nightmare to support users.

Don't get me wrong; It would be great to see in the core but only with a
consistent setup and hide it as much as possible with one click revert to

the original structure.

This comment was created with the J!Tracker Application
https://github.com/joomla/jissues at issues.joomla.org/joomla-cms/5492
http://issues.joomla.org/tracker/joomla-cms/5492.

—
Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub
#5492 (comment).

Brian Teeman
Co-founder Joomla! and OpenSourceMatters Inc.
http://brian.teeman.net/

Brian Teeman
Co-founder Joomla! and OpenSourceMatters Inc.
http://brian.teeman.net/