Add rendering for highway=busway

[kolgza]

Fixes # (id of the issue to be closed)

• Add rendering for highway=busway. #4226

Changes proposed in this pull request:

The rendering for higway=bus_guideway would be applied to instances of highway=busway.

Test rendering with links to the example places:

• https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4051402#map=15/40.4294/-80.0636

Before

After

[pnorman]

I agree with a unified rendering for both bus_guideway and busway. I'm not certain this is the right rendering for them when combined. On the other hand, I can't think of something that I'm certain would work. I was thinking of blue variations of railway=subway, but don't think that's any better.

My request changes is just about the syntax.

oudated

[kolgza]

I was thinking of blue variations of railway=subway, but don't think that's any better.

I think this would have the same problem where it just sort doesn't look right where a busway meets a roadway. It should really have more road-like qualities.

[imagico]

There has not yet been a meaningful discussion in #4226 about the suitability of this tag for rendering in this style. At this time this is highly questionable. The tag is used 1500 times (compared to 2900 of service=busway), more than 1200 of these uses are last edited by a single user (colgza) - possibly indicating a mechanical edit. It is going to take quite some time to see if local mappers mapping based on local knowledge are going to broadly adopt this tagging and how the tag is actually going to be used.

Regarding the design - i would strongly suggest not using blue for non-water related line features in this style - this is just confusing. I know this is the case already for bus_guideway since the beginning (just like for cycleway) - but this is something best to be fixed rather than extended to other features IMO.

[kolgza]

There has not yet been a meaningful discussion in #4226 about the suitability of this tag for rendering in this style. At this time this is highly questionable. The tag is used 1500 times (compared to 2900 of service=busway), more than 1200 of these uses are last edited by a single user (colgza) - possibly indicating a mechanical edit. It is going to take quite some time to see if local mappers mapping based on local knowledge are going to broadly adopt this tagging and how the tag is actually going to be used.

Most busways are applied with highway=service which renders them poorly. However, applying highway=busway would cause them to instead not render at all. For this reason, very few mappers would apply this tag (and some may even remove it, thereby intensifying the catch-22), even if it is accepted as opposed to highway=service + service=busway.

If you want Carto to not affect how quickly this tag is adopted, then what you should do is render it the same way as highway=service because Carto would no longer be favor one tagging scheme over the other. However, because the proposal for highway=busway was accepted, this experiment would be moot.

[imagico]

We have had this situation plenty of times - like highway=ford -> ford=yes, amenity=embassy -> office=diplomatic. If a tag is popular among mappers it will get used independent of if we render it here or not.

Our aim is to support mappers in consistent use of tags (which they have developed on their own), not to proactively steer them to use certain tags.

[Recoil016]

Ah yes, the circle of death: New tag => people don't use it because carto doesn't render it => carto doesn't render it because people don't use it => people don't use it because carto doesn't render it...

[kolgza]

And, I accidentally closed the pull request because I don't know how to use git :p

[zekefarwell]

Ah yes, the circle of death: New tag => people don't use it because carto doesn't render it => carto doesn't render it because people don't use it => people don't use it because carto doesn't render it...

Yup. Most people don't care what the tags are. They care that the thing they mapped shows up on a map. Carto influences mappers just as much by not rendering a feature as it does by rendering a feature. Denying this influence is disingenuous.

[imagico]

No one is denying that we have a strong influence on mappers, on the contrary, what i continuously point out is that we should be mindful of that influence and act responsibly in light of that. Over the years we have had the chance to observe in plenty of cases in various forms how that influence manifests and learn how we can avoid it being counterproductive for OSM. That is what our principle of supporting mappers in consistent use of tags but not actively steering them is based on.

The idea that not rendering something is in terms of moral responsibility on the same level as rendering something (which seems to be implied in your comment) does not hold up - it would be kind of like saying physically attacking someone and not physically attacking them is comparable.

[zekefarwell]

Moral responsibility and physical attack are far beyond anything I intended to imply. All I'm saying is that in general mappers will choose a tag that renders over a tag that does not. This dynamic upholds the status quo and hinders adoption of improved tagging schemes.

[kolgza]

Please don't have any arguments on my account. If you do, please put it in the mailing lists and not here.