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Logos Lectora is adding an additional HQ slot. #3097

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Komrad33 opened this issue Feb 1, 2024 · 12 comments
Closed

Logos Lectora is adding an additional HQ slot. #3097

Komrad33 opened this issue Feb 1, 2024 · 12 comments
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@Komrad33
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Komrad33 commented Feb 1, 2024

Describe the bug
When Logos Lectora is selected it adds an additional HQ slot to the force org chart

To Reproduce
Select Logos Lectora in an Ultramarines list
allows for 4 HQ slots.

Expected behavior
Logos requires an Additional Compulsory HQ in addition to what is normally required that is either a MOS or Damocles Rhino, but nowhere does it grant an additional HQ slot like other ROW's EX: the Nightlord's Swift Blade ROW that modifies the Force Org Chart directly.

It should only have 3 HQ slots available.

Screenshots
image
image
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Device and data (please complete the following information):
Win 11, IOS, Mac OS
New recruit/Battlescribe latest versions

Additional context

@Komrad33 Komrad33 added the bug label Feb 1, 2024
@The4D6 The4D6 self-assigned this Feb 2, 2024
@The4D6 The4D6 added this to the v18.2 milestone Feb 2, 2024
@nstephenh nstephenh added the Rules Unclear I'm not sure how to resolve this one label Feb 16, 2024
@nstephenh nstephenh removed this from the v18.2 milestone Feb 16, 2024
@nstephenh
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I don't think I'm inclined to agree with you here. Looking at the text for the force organization chart, not the infographic, there are Compulsory HQ slots, and optional HQ slots. Adding a compulsory slot doesn't remove an optional slot. Willing to hear other opinions @The4D6 @Mayegelt .

The swift blade I don't think is a fair comparison since it just changes the max number of HQs, which I take to be changing the max of optional HQs.

@Mayegelt
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Logos lectota only requires an additional compulsory. That means that out of the 3 HQ slots you have. 2 must be filled with compulsory H! Units. Of which in this case 1 must be a Damocles or MoS.
There are no additional slots added.

@Mayegelt
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To expand on the point I made above. There are no force entries for any unit that are "compulsory HQ" or "optional HQ" they are just HQ.
Otherwise you would end up with a situation that unless a unit had the support squad rule. You would not be able to take it in any optional.slot, as it would be compulsory, and only only have 1 compulsory HQ and 2 compulsory troops slots in a regular FoC.

@nstephenh
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When you originally implemented it you went the other way with it. The thing that trips me up here is that it's "additional". You have by default 1 compulsory HQ and 2 additional. Panoptica says 3 as well.
I don't know that I agree and I won't stop anyone else from changing it but I don't particularly want to change it.

@Mayegelt
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It may have been myself miss reading, or one of the other people doing it (I can't remember if I did UM).

@Mayegelt
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When you originally implemented it you went the other way with it. The thing that trips me up here is that it's "additional". You have by default 1 compulsory HQ and 2 additional. Panoptica says 3 as well. I don't know that I agree and I won't stop anyone else from changing it but I don't particularly want to change it.

Also if you note that the RoW says"Additional" but the FoC says "Optional" they are different.
In essence as put above you get 3 HQ slots. But one is compulsory (this means both it is not optional, you have to take it, but also must be filled by a unit that is allowed to fill a compulsory FoC slot appropriate to the one needing to be filled.)
The other 2 optional ones you do not have to take, and can be filled by both units that can fill compulsory slots and those that say they can not.

@nstephenh
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To me the wording isn't that different from salamander's "additional non-compulsory HQ choice" which is just an extra optional slot. Not that what fills it must have support squad or anything like that. The wording is that its "take an additional compulsory" so I guess I can see that meaning "a slot becomes compulsory"
These are the only instances of any "additional" slots. unfortunately.

@Mayegelt
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"A Detachment using this Rite of War gains a single additional non-Compulsory HQ choice, which may only be used to select a Legion Centurion with the Chaplain Consul upgrade."

The 2 key parts of that is "gains" rather than "must take" and thay it comes under "Effects" rather than "Limitations".

@The4D6
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The4D6 commented Feb 16, 2024

I'm with Maye on this one, and I've asked the various UM players I know

You don't gain an extra slot, but you're required to take 2/3 HQs

@Komrad33
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I appreciate y'all looking at this.

I know it's a tough one, but after 4 games now of "Battle scribe says..." And being a UM player, I took a closer look at BS/NR and saw it.

The wording, as with all GW products is very confusing and as a technical writer for a flight department stuff like that drives me nuts! I can't tell you how much I appreciate the hard work y'all put into these data files.

@Mayegelt
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I think the big one to look at regarding this is the Salamanders RoW which in the Effects has
"A Detachment using this Rite of War gains a single additional non-Compulsory HQ choice, which may only be used to select a Legion Centurion with the Chaplain Consul upgrade."
Then under Limitations has
"A Detachment using this Rite of War must include at least one Legion Centurion with the Chaplain Consul upgrade."

image

This is giving the additional Non-Comp HQ but then making it Comp by requiring it.
While the UM one only has it in the Limitations of requiring an additional Comp HQ which has to be a MoS or Damocles.

@Mayegelt
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Mayegelt commented Aug 8, 2024

Will be fixed in #3302
The wording explains its an additional Comp HQ, not an additional HQ. This is so that if you take Guilliman you would still need to take a MoS/Damo and another comp HQ to have a legal army, which without them would be your Delegatus/Preator/Special Char + a MoS/Damo as 2 of the 3 choices.

@Mayegelt Mayegelt added the Done (in PR) but not on Release Branch This fix is awaiting a PR in to the Release Branch but could benefit from additional testing/input. label Aug 8, 2024
@Mayegelt Mayegelt removed the Done (in PR) but not on Release Branch This fix is awaiting a PR in to the Release Branch but could benefit from additional testing/input. label Aug 10, 2024
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